| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
726
   |
Posted - 2014.05.11 08:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well they could have based light drone level on your scout drone level and medium drone level on your CDO level ... but even more people would have whined that way. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
726
|
Posted - 2014.05.11 23:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
People gambled a week or so of training on the basis of a dev blog about possible changes and it did not pay off.
How is that any different to investing in BPCs or even grinding LP on the basis of a dev blog only to have it not pay off?
Some people are far to SP obsessed. If your getting uptight about these relatively minor changes you need to pause your skill queue for a week and take a holiday from EVE.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
741
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 06:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rowland Eld wrote:As a new player I am very saddened with this move. I am expecting the common, get over it noob this is eve, but I am new and have trained both scout and combat drones op to 5 which is a fair chunk of my total skill points to date. Now if I were to have trained only one of those skills to 5, after summer I would get the benefit of both?
This hardly seems fair as I could have used the time I was training the other to 5 to train some skill tht will still be relevant after the patch.
Please do something to make this right or it will mean wwe all wasted over a week training something you will be removing from the game, hence effectively taking that week of training away from us!
As a current player you are still far better than new players joining after the patch who will have to train all three skills to V separately. I suggest waiting till after the patch and then lurking in noob school chats where you can razz new players explaining how "if only they had joined 4 weeks earlier they would be weeks better off in skill".
Alternative ... realize this is not a SP focused game and forget the silly SP mini-game people from other MMOs try and import to EVE and get out and actually play EVE. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
741
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I don't care if you think I'm whiny or entitled, I'll just be over here being right.
lol, the sense of entitlement is strong in this one Padwan
I am more than happy to have free SP if they want to refund my whole one week or so of training but seriously I really do not care if they do or not.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
741
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 11:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:I don't care if you think I'm whiny or entitled, I'll just be over here being right. lol, the sense of entitlement is strong in this one Padwan I am more than happy to have free SP if they want to refund my whole one week or so of training but seriously I really do not care if they do or not. One week is a lot for new players. I don't get this apologetic mentality of forum dwellers. If CCP said that they will remove all titan skills only to nerf titans so you have to relearn it again, I bet you would ask for more and defend their (stupid) decision. Solution is simple. Refund CDO skills. Or at least for people who started training them after the dev blog.
Its because as a result of the change you are actually getting a week of training for free, you will get 3 skills for either two or one compared to someone who subs after summer.
Also SP obsessed players eventually quit so its not a habit to encourage.
Note that there is nothing been said either way about SP reimbursement, it may still happen. (The main reason they are WARY of SP reimbursement isprobably that every time they do it, people then whine demanding more for a year or more afterwards). |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
742
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 15:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
It was immediately obvious that the proposal as suggested in the first DEV blog would have meant people with just SDO would have lost access to light drones and this is against stated CCP policy.
Sooo ... to anyone with half a brain that proposal was never going to see the light of day.
Maybe people should think for themselves rather than demanding SP compensation for what is basically their own stupidity. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
747
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 23:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Tippia wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:I guess I'm missing something here. Probably the word GÇ£trainingGÇ¥ in GÇ£training advantageGÇ¥.  To get the same advantages as you have now, people will in the future have to train for longer. Quote:Performance wise they will either remain the same or gain. Yes, but the training required to get that performance will increase, and so will the gaps between the different stages of having the skills trained. Maybe I misunderstood the nature of James' complaint then. I took it to mean that what he was losing was the performance difference he trained for, rather than the training time change. Edit: Actually, he's losing in training advantage as you describe it to anyone who trained SDO V but CDO to anything less than V. If someone decides to train CDO to V because of dev blog they lost the days they trained it. That is the loss.
If your using drones you got the advantage of the extra medium drone damage the whole time. If your not actually using drones why do you care and why on earth bother training it. Or do people just collect SP for the sake of it ?
meh ... CCP may well reimburse and if they do fine. Free SP is good SP as you can allocate to skills that kinda suck on your current remap and get 8 days for 7 days. However whining on forums and throwing tantrums is if anything going to make it LESS likely,
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
751
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 05:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have a new proposal.
Compensate people for CDO.
But also compensate people the same amount who did not train CDO.
This is only fair as the people that trained CDO will have had the use of it for some time effectively for free, meaning the people who read the blog properly and did not train CDO will be disadvantaged unless they also get compensated. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
751
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Of course the SENSIBLE option would have been:
Avionics = SDO current level
LDO = SDO current level
MDO = CDO current level
No lost SP, no need for reimbursement.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
751
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Of course the SENSIBLE option would have been:
Avionics = SDO current level
LDO = SDO current level
MDO = CDO current level
No lost SP, no need for reimbursement.
Then, with SDO trained to V and CDO not trained you would be able to use T2 light and medium drones before the change, but only T2 light and T1 medium after the change.
But you are only losing access to a variant not a drone type.
Main thing is it will shutup all the SP whiners :D |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
751
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 11:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kate Blaze wrote:Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Nobody likes my idea with the paused training time.  But it'd be fair! Isn't this here all about fairness  Mostly cause that idea is ********.
You gotta admit the tears would be glorious though. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
751
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Shhh... The adults are talking. CCP Fozzie wrote:Jane Shapperd wrote:So what about those who trained both skills Combat Drone Operation & Scout Drone Operation to 5
will they be compensated for training combat drone operation ?
as if they didn't train combat drone operation to 5 , they will get both new skills to level 5 Nope, because there's nothing to be compensated for.If you have either Combat Drone Operation or Scout Drone Operation (or both) trained to level 5 you get the maximum possible ranks of the new skills. Bedtime. Stop arguing in circles or sack up and challenge the Devs until they concede the point. The rest is just debate/perspective and nothing is final until the patch hits anyway.
+1
The interesting thing here is how many people see SP as some sort of competition that you can "win" .
I also suspect part of the problem is the free SP given away in the past. The 10 million or so free SP you could feasibly pick up in the destroyer/battlecruiser rebalance almost doubled some newer players effective SP and seems to have created large expectations. That is despite the fact that people had the same effective in-game abilities and access after the rebalance as before. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
752
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote:Tippia wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Time is one of the core elements of eve. GǪand that's why you never lose any in these changes: since the GÇ£if you could use itGÇ¥ principle is in effect. Only if there is no possibility at all to keep what you had GÇö if the fundamental mechanic behind a skill is removed, for instance GÇö do you get that time back in the form of freely distributable SP. But the corollary to that is still that, if you end up with more than you had, then good for you. Free time from CCP GÇö yay! I'm not debating any loss. I'm debating the merit of awarding the same skill points to party A who has less time invested than party B. Skill points equate to time as far as training in eve is concerned. It's not that I don't see where you're coming from. "We're all getting more than we had before". But if CCP were to give everyone 200m skill points tomorrow, then everyone would be ahead. Someone already has 200m skill points? Ok, let's make it 500m skill points. Why would people be mad? They all have more than they had before. It's because the other people got there without investing the time.
But time is not an issue in Eve. It takes 18 years or more to get close to all skill so no one single character can ever "win" an SP race. Specialist alt characters are almost essential, the player with a single character that trains everything forever is seriously disadvantaged. Which is why the game provides you with two free alts on your main account.
There is also the character bazaar that lets you buy a character with considerably more SP than your current one. If you really want to race ahead in SP just build a character that specialises in making ISK and then buy yourself the pretrained advanced character you want.
Unlike other games there is no "street cred" for high SP. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
753
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 02:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:
I think you are missing the point.
Why do we train skills? Its not to have more SP than someone else, its to gain an advantage over someone else.
This is probably the real issue here.
In theory you train SP to gain abilities improve your skills and gain access to things. Much like in real life you do a university degree to gain abilities improve your skills and gain access to things (like a career and better income).
Now sadly in real life SOME unfortunate people do actually do a university degree to gain an advantage over someone else rather than for what the degree actually offers.
I suppose if you treat your gaming the same way then you would see the drone skill change as "losing" your 1 week "advantage" over other people.
In the current scenario my attitude is:
- IF you trained CDO for the legitimate purpose of using the skill there is no need to reimburse.
- if you trained it as patch speculation hoping to manipulate some sort of SP advantage over newer players well too bad it backfired
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
754
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 03:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote:
Eve is a time based game .. .
No it is not. Really not.
I suppose you can make it one by deciding to play a single character and never use the character bazaar, but even then after a few years you are just adding more variety of skills to a single character that are arguably better off being trained on an alt.
You can make EVE a time based game and I suppose there is nothing wrong with playing a single character you created and trained all by yourself but it is not an essential (or even common) way to play eve. Most people have scout alts and hauler alts and cyno alts and even alts that specialize in different ships/weapons. Once you bring in alts and the character bazaar the whole SP race becomes far less relevant. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
754
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 06:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Your loss. I don't always agree with Tippia but he's not a troll. Well if she isn't then it really means she (he?) is really that dumb.
Nope he/she is making very valid points and certain people obsessed with SP and skill queues refuse to listen to any logic that argues SP equality is not the relevant issue here. There seems to be a certain degree of SP fundamentalism going on here.
People should stop obsessing over skill points and go play the game.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
755
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 07:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
What would be really annoying is if they suddenly GAVE the CDO people a refund with no notice.... because I could have trained CDO with its memory/perception requisites on my alts and then allocated those SP to something that doesn't match my skill mapping and picked up an extra day or more in training time :D
Basically CDO is "cheap" to train as perception tends to be bumped in remaps. Thsi means people can train for CDO on the cheap and then allocate those SP to something that is say Charisma based and gain an advantage over people that did not train it. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
758
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 12:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Walter Hart White wrote:Best solution is refunding CDO for everyone. Side A will stop bickering, Side B will have nothing to bicker about or to bicker with and everyone wins. Characters who have CDO V lose nothing in terms of progression and can spend the 11 days they had to spend on CDO (many of them after reading blog) back. Literary everyone wins in this situation. You can't argue that! Except for the fact that is what side A is asking for effectively by demanding they get free SP equivalent to CDO V...... Just prettied up in a dress and make up. So.... No.
Pretty much.
To be honest every single one of my alts has CDO trained so I would gain a lot if they gave away free SP for it.
HOWEVER I really do not like girly whining and tantrums so I am opposed to people getting it pretty much on principle.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
763
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 00:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Priestess Lin wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Walter Hart White wrote:Best solution is refunding CDO for everyone. Side A will stop bickering, Side B will have nothing to bicker about or to bicker with and everyone wins. Characters who have CDO V lose nothing in terms of progression and can spend the 11 days they had to spend on CDO (many of them after reading blog) back. Literary everyone wins in this situation. You can't argue that! Except for the fact that is what side A is asking for effectively by demanding they get free SP equivalent to CDO V...... Just prettied up in a dress and make up. So.... No. Pretty much. To be honest every single one of my alts has CDO trained so I would gain a lot if they gave away free SP for it. HOWEVER I really do not like girly whining and tantrums so I am opposed to people getting it pretty much on principle. the girly whining and tantrums is you projecting yourself into others. People have valid complaints. I myself recently just spent the time and money to get CDO to V and now they are giving it to everyone for free. I would not be wrong to feel cheated in some way. its very simple concept but a few incredibly stupid people fail to realize others valid complains and choose to keep slamming others back with their ignorant and imposing viewpoint that is detached from fairness.
There are numerous changes that mean people have "wasted" SP .For example one of my industry alts just finished training ME5 and researching a batch of BPOs only to find the whole exercise was a waste of several months but I am not demanding SP reimbursement. My mission alt only JUST trained interfacing to 5 and got T2 sentries but post patch you are better off with staying at IV for both those and training something else. I am not claiming claiming reimbursemnt for that either.
1. there are numerous changes in summer patch where people are disadvantaged but no-one else is claiming SP
2. The ONLY people disadvantged by the CDO issue are the few people who DELIBERATELY trained it at the last minute to try and rort the patch system
3. Devs catering to player whining creates an entitled atmosphere and leads to further complaining which puts off prospective players and is detrimental to the game as a whole. In many ways CCP would be better with a strict "no SP eve" policy.
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